[BFix] FW: The new Socialism!

[Stephen Urban]

You appear to be fond of invoking the old "little words" theme.  Loose 
your dictionary?

Seems you also like putting words in peoples mouths.  No where did I 
espouse anything you rant about and it appears you are taking your 
issues with another poster out on me.  I merely pointed out your 
incorrect analogy, the historical facts behind using force if it becomes 
necessary and the inability to do so without the proper means.  You are 
correct that the Constitution needs to be taken as a whole, however some 
parts are of more importance then others.  As I stated without the First 
there is NO WAY to make use of ANY of the rest of the document and the 
Second is the ONLY means to ensure the safety of the First in the most 
extreme circumstances.  While the Founding Fathers didn't codify the 
application of removal-by-force, with the successful completion of that 
exact procedure under their belts do you really believe it wasn't on 
their minds when they wrote the Bill of Rights?

Yes I am aware of "saluting-the-rank-not-the-man" but I am also aware 
that the rank doesn't protect the man if he fails to live up to it   
My-Lia ring any bells?  As I stated before you would have made a very 
nice Tory lap dog and there really isn't much point to this anymore 
since you seem to be able to carry on both sides of the argument 
irregardless of my actual input.

Good night, and good luck.

Steve Urban
Semper Fi!
SCB#143
EBR#0692
CA4WDC#3576
NRA & CRPA Life Member
29 Palms, CA
sfu at roadrunner.com



Formerjughead at aol.com wrote:
> Okay, I'll use the little words this time.
> It is not okay to: Fold, spindle, mutilate, hang or otherwise keep an 
> elected official from performing the duties of the office they were 
> elected to through force, fear or the threat of violence. Especially 
> in a democratic society; there are other avenues of removal.
>  
> By your logic the creation of the second amendment provides for the 
> assassination of elected officials and it would be the duty of every 
> American to do so when they felt they were not being represented 
> effectively.
>  
> I have read Article I section 3 of the Constitution and no where does 
> it imply that elected officials are to be removed from office by force 
> or fear. The Founding Fathers used the words "Impeachment" and 
> "Conviction"
>  
> No part of the Constitution is meant to be taken out of context and 
> manipulated to suit one's opinion or beliefs. The Constitution is 
> meant to be digested as a single document and is a result of the sum 
> of it's parts. That means if you take one piece you take the whole thing.
>  
> Your argument is that the 2nd Amendment protects the 1st Amendment. 
> Well if you read further down the Bill of Rights you will find the 5th 
> Amendment which insures "due process" and further down you will find 
> the 8th Amendment which prohibits the infliction of "Cruel and 
> Unusual" punishment as a result of due process.
>  
> And if we are going to split hairs the first Amendment specifically 
> states:
>  
>
>
>         Amendment I
>
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 
> prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
> speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to 
> assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
>
>  
>
> I do not believe that a "lynch mob" has ever been peaceably assembled
>
> Item next:
>
> Elected Officials are the embodied manifestation of the office they 
> hold and are afforded the respect due their office. It's the old 
> "Salute the rank and not the man" cliche.............you as a former 
> Marine should know that by not saluting the man you are disrespecting 
> the rank.
>
> I am here all day
>
>  
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 4/26/2008 12:10:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
> sfu at roadrunner.com writes:
>
>     You got it partly right at least sparky.  The IDEA of elected
>     officials
>     is indeed part of the Constitution and protected but as I said the
>     actual elected officials aren't .  That is specifically why we don't
>     swear allegiance to the current Government instead of the
>     Constitution
>     and even the President is mentioned secondary to the Constitution.
>
>     The Founding Fathers were very aware of how power corrupts and
>     that is
>     why they signed off on the 1st and 2nd Amendments.  The First so that
>     the people could have unfettered information as to what their elected
>     officials were doing and the Second so that if things got too far
>     out of
>     hand that they could be removed if all else failed.  The control
>     of both
>     the Press and ownership of weapons were some of the first ways the
>     British had tried to keep the Colonists in line.
>
>     As has been demonstrated multiple times in the past all over the
>     world,
>     even when a country's citizens are informed enough to want to
>     throw off
>     the yoke of their  "elected"  officials, without the means to do
>     so it
>     is all but impossible.  So the first is of almost no real use without
>     the second once things have gone downhill but the second allows the
>     first to keep the slide from beginning in the first place.
>
>     Steve Urban
>     Semper Fi!
>     SCB#143
>     EBR#0692
>     CA4WDC#3576
>     NRA & CRPA Life Member
>     29 Palms, CA
>     sfu at roadrunner.com
>
>     Formerjughead at aol.com wrote:
>     > The elected officials are part and parcel of the Constitution
>     and are
>     > therefore one in the same. "Support and Defend the Constitution"
>     does
>     > not refer to the document as much as it does to the ideals
>     contained
>     > within it.
>     > 
>     > Next
>     > 
>     > In a message dated 4/25/2008 10:30:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>     > sfu at roadrunner.com writes:
>     >
>     >     "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will
>     >     support and defend the Constitution of the United States
>     against all
>     >     enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and
>     >     allegiance to the same...";.  Notice that you were swearing
>     >     allegiance
>     >     to the CONSTITUTION and not an elected official (of any
>     party).  No
>     >     where does it say anything about protecting a political
>     party or even
>     >     currently serving politicians.  Who by the way also all swear to
>     >     uphold
>     >     the Constitution.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
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