was Re: [BFix] Thinking outload gasmileageandEB....nowwhyditchthelock up

Sun May 11 12:46:53 MST 2008

I sure didn't want to imply that you didn't understand the "generic" one 
size fits all chart. You and I both understand that and I understand how 
gearing and torque multiplication works.

I'm running on the economy side of the generic chart by choice and doing 
this quite effectively by running a higher torque engine  This is compared 
to a 5.0, 6cyl, or a 4 banger--which you and I know-- because these factors 
aren't addressed in the chart at all. In an EB,  I'm not extremely worried 
about stoplight to stoplight acceleration anymore. Those days, and all the 
cars I used to own that would be respectable doing that back then, are gone. 
:)

Therefore, I'm looking for a happy medium between trail, highway, and 
ability to launch when I stomp on it when slogging thru or at trying to keep 
moving through deep, heavy, wet snow, etc and I've found it. I've also been 
wanting to slap in a 700R4 (and it's advantages) since the days Kincade was 
working on his now perfected 700R4 adapters. That's been a while- a long 
while!  lol    . That's the plan anyway.

I have run smaller OD tires with the 4.10 gears and it's fun. Listening to 
the V8 turning at 3,000rpm down the county road or freeway isn't...

.

Brian @ Columbia River Broncos...20 forward gears & 4 reverse to choose 
from.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Quinn Dusenberry" <q.dusenberry at comcast.net>
To: <mail at broncofix.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: RE: was Re: [BFix] Thinking outload 
gasmileageandEB....nowwhyditchthelock up

> Obviously it isn't a one size fits all chart. It's a general guideline for
> most gas powered engines. That's why it gives a range of suggested gear
> ratios from the yellow to the red. Sure you should bias it one direction 
> or
> the other based on your engine. Like if you had a less powerful, smaller
> displacement engine, you would want lower gears to help offset that. I was
> just trying to point out that rather than build a bigger engine to improve
> your vehicle's performance, which you've already admitted you want to do, 
> I
> would reconsider regearing it first. Gears will do the same thing as more
> torque will. Gears are torque multipliers. If you want to see how you like
> how it drives with lower gears, borrow a set of smaller tires and try it 
> for
> a while.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bfix-bounces at broncofix.com [mailto:bfix-bounces at broncofix.com] On
> Behalf Of Brian Cooke
> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:03 PM
> To: mail at broncofix.com
> Subject: Re: was Re: [BFix] Thinking outload
> gasmileageandEB....nowwhyditchthe lock up
>
> So you're stating that the table (from your post below--
> http://www.4lo.com/calc/geartable.htm)  takes into account all engine
> combinations, meaning it's a "one size fits all" chart for all different
> size or brands of engines, figuring in cam designs, head volume and
> efficiencies, induction systems...everything that affects torque curves 
> and
> throttle response, driver style and needs?  I didn't know the referenced
> chart could factor all that in. I can't see where the chart might show the
> difference in running a 4cyl with 4.88 gears and 35" tires compared to big
> block running 4.88 gears and 35" tires.  I have my rig dialed in for my
> needs. Not perfect obviously, but for the $$ I have in it, it works for 
> me.
>
> I'm not arguing that 4.10's w/37" tires is a "good combo"...  My post 
> below
> stated that my 351W was turning at 2200 rpm...and I had regeared last fall
> with 4.56 gears.
>
> So figuring 70mph (my reference) not 65mph (the chart), my 351W is turning
> at appr 2200 rpm. Definitely acceptable rpms for optimum mileage with the
> gears I'm running. Yes, I might be losing optimum acceleration with this
> gearing when I'm cruising, but if I shift into 4th, I've got it all back.
> If I need to crawl slow, I just shift in my 203 box and my 5.72 first 
> gear.
>
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> Brian @ Columbia River Broncos...20 forward gears & 4 reverse to choose
> from.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Quinn Dusenberry" <q.dusenberry at comcast.net>
> To: <mail at broncofix.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:13 PM
> Subject: RE: was Re: [BFix] Thinking outload gas
> mileageandEB....nowwhyditchthe lock up
>
>
>> The idea is to get the engine most efficiently. Take a look at this gear
>> table and then try to argue the point that 4.10's and 37's is a good
>> combo.
>> At 65 mph, your engine would be turning 1770 rpm. The only way you were
>> turning 2200 rpm would be when you were going 80 mph. Either that or your
>> "effective" diameter was much less than 37" which could be the case.
>>
>> Your switch to 4.56's is much better, but still not ideal. Keep in mind
>> that
>> this chart is purely a mathematical table based on the circumference of a
>> tire. It does not take into account the fact that with a larger
>> circumference also come more inertia and more weight. You should be
>> gearing
>> more towards the red side of the chart the bigger your tires get to help
>> offset the mass and inertia parts of the larger tires.
>>
>> http://www.4lo.com/calc/geartable.htm
>>
>> Keep in mind that this chart is just your 1:1 ratio, you need to multiply
>> all values in the table by your OD ratio (0.73 in your case) to get the
>> true
>> rpm at 65 mph.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Cooke [mailto:nvrstuk at elltel.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:20 PM
>> To: Mike Bowlin; Quinn Dusenberry; mail at broncofix.com
>> Subject: Re: was Re: [BFix] Thinking outload gas mileage
>> andEB....nowwhyditchthe lock up
>>
>> Not sure why a 351W turning at 2200rpm is bad gearing.  Not like it's
>> lacking torque to adequately move me at 70mph except when climbing a long
>> 5%
>>
>> + grade in OD. Not sure why I'd need to spin the engine at another couple
>> hundred rpm for extended freeway trips is worth it for wear or for 
>> mileage
>> IMO.  Guess that's how I got almost 185,000 miles on this engine I built
>> 20
>> years ago... I regeared to 4.56's last fall to help offset the taller
>> tires.
>>
>> If this was a dedicated trail rig or used 90% on trail that's a different
>> story. Quite a few EB's are driven more miles off road than on-mine is.
>> Even
>>
>> if you tow your rig to Moab, you're usually putting more road miles on it
>> than trail miles in a typical day. 10 miles to the trail head, 10 miles
>> back. Trail is 5-15 miles long...whatever...just an example.
>>
>> Most of you know I also run a doubler off road, so "go slow" gearing 
>> isn't
>> an issue at all.
>>
>> You're right, heat is a drawback of more HP. For sand, heavy wet snow and
>> mud, you can't go wrong with more HP tho. Crawling over rocks is totally
>> different. Just like tires, there's a different drivetrain combination
>> that
>> would be best used for almost every terrain.
>>
>>
>> BTW, ask Jack how much fun having that 408 is too!  :)
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Brian @ Columbia River Broncos...20 forward gears & 4 reverse to choose
>> from.
>>
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